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2v2 Teams Tournament

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2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

.
Attention: Tournament signups have closed!!

Hey guys! I'm keeping this comment up-to-date in the edit section below but I'm leaving the rest here for the benefit of the readers.

As you are probably aware, theether recently started a small tournament for interested players where all the players had to choose Grimm. I personally have found it fun so far and only one game is finished.

EDIT: Okay, so a lot has changed since this was originally posted so I'm going to intervene here. I'll leave the rest of the original post in tact for posterity in this spoiler and below I'll continue with the new information.

Spoiler for Posterity:
Since it was so much fun, BountyFrog and I (mostly BountyFrog with my help) have decided to organize a tournament of 4p games. The plan I think is to have the games be FoW, but if we have a big push for no fog we can always do without it. What we aren't really sure about yet is how exactly to organize it and what the rules should be. For example, here are some potential options:

FFA games: With no/limited diplomacy/truces with other players to reduce the odds of people getting ganged up on? Advancement through the tournament might be based on a point system with the first player out in any game is eliminated and the next group are ranked based on position? Potential to instead just keep the top 2 finishers of each game and maybe favor someone with a 1st place vs a 2nd place in the cases of draws etc? Keeping only the winner of each match would mean we need a lot of people so I don't think that's realistic.

Team games: With teams, the advancement options are pretty well limited to the winning team and diplomacy isn't an issue. The real question is, if we go with the team game approach, do we keep fixed teams or do partners change based on some sort of ranking system (who did well and who didn't etc) so that they are balanced somewhat after every round. Also, if we have it open to anyone on the street (so to speak) what happens if a team member gets booted? Do we find a new player and rematch?

Regardless, I think resigning is unfair unless it is either down to 2P in an FFA setting, or both members of a team agree to resign.

If you don't already know, the plan was to arrange a fun, multiplayer, FoW tournament and this topic is to discuss player interest and potential rules. For those of you who were following along from the beginning, BountyFrog no longer has any involvement due to his extended inactivity on both this forum and AWBW. I will no longer be participating in the tournament myself, acting solely as the organizer. The discussion is spoilered below for length and because I will not keep it up to date. You can read if you so desire, but all of the relevant and updated information will be kept under the "Current Tournament Rules and Settings" heading, below.

Spoiler for Length:
I'd personally prefer this to be a teams tournament so unless anyone has major objections, consider this to be for 2-player Teams! I'd also prefer to have teams randomly selected from all participants for the sake of being fair, but that still leaves 2 options:


  1. You get the same (randomly assigned) teammate every game
  2. New, random teammates are assigned with each new game

Due to general lack of players, a round robin is probably best to start (maybe 3-5 games?) so I was thinking of implementing Option 2 for the round robin and getting some stats built up, and then effectively generating more permanent teams for elimination based on seed. Players with the best record would be paired with players with worse records, but, as incentive for landing a higher seed, those with the best records after the round robin get to decide the maps for the tournament (like homefield advantage). At each elimination match, the highest seed player in that match picks the map unless there is a tie. At that point, the highest combined team seed wins and that team has to agree on the map. Normally the higher ranked player does not need to consult their teammate, but here it would be mandatory to reach a team decision; if a timely decision is not made, an automatic deferral to the opposing team would be implemented. For maps, I would probably provide some general constraints on size and funding but more or less leave the player the freedom to pick at will (pending my approval, of course).

On booting and resigning: All players must take their turns in a timely manner and avoid being booted and all resignations must be a team decision. A warning will be issued to any player in violation of this rule and any player that gets booted or inappropriately resigns more than once can be ejected from the tournament. I would posit that any match in which a player is booted or a player resigns prematurely/without their partner's consent should result in a loss for that player and a draw for the remaining 3, unless there was a clear victor at the point of boot/resignation. During elimination rounds things will be more complicated and I will probably take things on a case-by-case basis should problems arise at that point.

Anyway, feel free to discuss or debate any of this up until the point that the tournament starts. Remember, I want it to be a tournament that people want to play in, so tell me what you like!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- EDIT --------- Current Tournament Rules and Settings --------- EDIT ---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Attention: Tournament signups have closed!!

Players:

  • blanci1
  • Everdan
  • insignia21
  • Kamuscha
  • Madd Maxx
  • MorganLeah
  • Nyvelion
  • Sneggid
  • TacticsCommand
  • the-deadly-shadow
  • theether

Tournament Rules and Layout:

  1. 3-5 game round robin
  2. Player seeding based on round robin
  3. Elimination rounds based on the number of players

    • 8-11 Players- Top 8 seeds continue to elimination
    • 12-15 Players- Top 12 seeds continue to elimination; teams with top two seeds have a first round bye
    • 16+ Players- Top 16 seeds continue to elimination
    • Highest seed will always be paired with seed just below half, 2nd seed with 2nd below half, etc. (eg: for 8 players, elimination round teams are seeds 1&5, 2&6, 3&7, 4&8 )

Tournament winners will be determined as follows:

  • 1st- Highest seed on winning team
  • 2nd- Lowest seed on winning team
  • 3rd- Highest seed on 2nd place team
  • 4th- Lowest seed on 2nd place team

Note that the top half of the players are always paired with a lower seed and, therefore, they will always take 1st if their team wins. In other words, you must place in the top half of players after the round robin to have the potential to win 1st place!


The following rules are in effect on booting and resigning*:
  • All players must take their turns in a timely manner and avoid being booted and all resignations must be a team decision.
  • A warning will be issued to any player in violation of the boot/resignation rule; subsequent violations will result in ejection from the tournament.
  • Any match in which a player is booted or resigns prematurely/without their partner's consent will result in a loss for the offending player and a draw for the remaining 3, unless there was a clear victor at the point of boot/resignation.
*During elimination rounds, violations and penalties will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis to minimize complications.


Tournament Game Settings:

  • Funds: 1000
  • Weather: Random
  • Fog: On
  • Teams: On (2v2 as discussed above)
  • Boot/AET: 4/4
  • Round Robin Maps: One map per round from list below; all players have the same maps
  • Elimination Round Maps: Highest seed player in each game selects game map- subject to rules below

Map Candidates for Round Robin:
TBD

Map Requirements for Elimination Rounds (Incomplete):

  • Must be well-designed/balanced for competitive gameplay
  • Must be suitable for 2v2 Team Play
  • Max size is approx. 30x30
  • Will be subject to CO and unit bans decided by tournament organizer
  • Any map can be rejected at tournament organizer's discretion


Last edited by Xmo5 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:31 pm; edited 18 times in total

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:33 am

Okay, I updated the original post so please read it over again and look at the rules and let me know if that sounds good for everyone. In the meantime, I'll work on getting some potential maps and PMing the remaining players. I should be able to get to that sometime in the next day or so.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Sneggid on Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:05 pm

I like the updated rules. Agree with new random assigned teammates for round robin, then seeded basis for elimination. Will there be an elimination of, say, the bottom two seeds after the round robin, or will all players proceed to elimination? (though in terms of likely number of participants, it may be essential for no eliminations between the round robin and the elimination)

And Im presuming that CO selection/ban will be decided on a per map basis?

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:10 pm

I was thinking that everybody would proceed to elimination unless we get more players to participate than I'm expecting. Or, maybe it will end up being that I eliminate enough of the lowest seeds to make the brackets look nice. If that means nobody, great, but if it means the lowest few players, then it might be worth it.

And yes, CO ban etc. would depend on the map.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  InvincibleXI on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:09 pm

If there aren't any eliminations from the round robin then it becomes slightly pointless, and there may be no incentive to win games (or even a perverse incentive to lose them, I don't think map choice is enough of an incentive). The most important thing is having the right number for the elimination rounds though. Assuming 8 players total in elimination, how about 1 being paired with 5, 2 with 6, 3 with 7, and 4 with 8? Then the highest 4 seeds are fighting for the 1st place, while the next 4, their partners, would be fighting for 2nd place So if 2 and 6 win the finals against 1 and 5, 2 will be 1st, 6 will be 2nd, 1 will be 3rd and 5 will be 4th.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:44 am

InvincibleXI wrote:If there aren't any eliminations from the round robin then it becomes slightly pointless and there may be no incentive to win games (or even a perverse incentive to lose them, I don't think map choice is enough of an incentive). The most important thing is having the right number for the elimination rounds though.

I agree to a point, but at the same time we're limited based on player interest. If we only get 8 players in the round robin, I can't afford to eliminate anyone so using it to generate seeds is the best I can do. I liked Blanci's map idea so I tried to incorporate it in a way that would give some incentive to win, but I agree, it's not a major incentive.

InvincibleXI wrote:Assuming 8 players total in elimination, how about 1 being paired with 5, 2 with 6, 3 with 7, and 4 with 8? Then the highest 4 seeds are fighting for the 1st place, while the next 4, their partners, would be fighting for 2nd place So if 2 and 6 win the finals against 1 and 5, 2 will be 1st, 6 will be 2nd, 1 will be 3rd and 5 will be 4th.

That's not a bad idea, actually. I hadn't decided on the specific team pairings for the elimination rounds, but I certainly didn't want to put 1 with 8 etc. I was toying around with different alternatives (this being one, of course) but I didn't want to commit before I knew how many players there would be. Adding the individual 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. certainly gives a lot more incentive to be seeded higher because you can't win 1st place otherwise. I think I'll adopt this for now and it can be further refined if/when others weigh in.

I think I'll do that if we get 8 players, if we get 9, 10, or 11, I'll eliminate after the round robin until we get to 8 players, and if we have 12, the top two seeds will get a first round bye in the elimination rounds. More than 12 I'll eliminate players after the round robin until we get to 12 unless we have 16+ etc.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  InvincibleXI on Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:53 am

Yeah absolutely. The key thing is making the knockout system work. The bye plan may have a problem which is that in the knockout stages the partners are supposed to be fixed. So if 1 2 3 4 get the bye, then 2 new pairs of partners must come from those, which is fine but seems slightly contradictory to the earlier idea of highest seeds partnering lower seeds.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:08 am

Okay I updated the "Current Tournament Settings" to reflect everything decided so far.

Sorry for the confusion; the bye was designed for a team, not an individual player, and I made that a little more clear in my edits to the first post. In other words, it you have 12 players your teams would be:

1, 7
2, 8
3, 9
4, 10
5, 11
6, 12

An example tournament bracket would have 6, 12 play 3, 9 in round one. The winner would then go on to play 1, 7 who had a bye. The other side would have 4, 10 play 5, 11 and the winner would go on to play 2, 8 who had a bye. Then the two winners would play the final match. The exact bracket isn't as important, but you get the general idea. With 8 or 16 players you would have a simple 2 and 3 round elimination respectively so there would be no need for a bye. Theoretically, we could also make 10 and 14 players work by giving only the team with the top seed a bye and making it a lopsided bracket or something, but I'd rather not when I can just eliminate a few players after the round robin.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  InvincibleXI on Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:40 am

Right, I wondered if that might be the idea, but that would be a pretty huge advantage for seeds 7 and 8 right? Or is this in conjunction with the other idea, so the reason why being 6 is better than 7 is because 6 can still try to win 1st?

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:51 am

Right, that would be correct. It's unfortunate that 7 and 8 would gain such an advantage but the fact that they still can't win 1st would be in effect as you suggested. I'm not really sure if there's a good way around that for a 12 player setup without changing the teams.

EDIT: Sending out the following message via AWBW PM to participants who have not returned to express interest-

Greetings and salutations fellow denizen of AWBW!

Para español, marque el numero tres. ... ... ...

You are being contacted with regards to the Multiplayer Tournament that you expressed interest in many moons ago. Since your last contact, this tournament has been revived and many of the rules and settings have been decided. If you have continued interest in this tournament and would like to view or discuss the current rules and settings, please follow the link below. Additionally, please provide confirmation of your interest or lack thereof by commenting on the linked thread or by responding to this message.

http://www.takeyourturn.net/t579-2v2-teams-tournament#2998

Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns with this process and we will be happy to assist you. Hope to see you there!

Sincerely,

The Tournament Organization Team

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:55 am

Well, I've heard not a single response with the exception of Madd Maxx which leaves us at a grand total of 6 players currently. I can try inviting other players, but I suggest that if anyone else has potential candidates they could recruit that they do so now. There are a lot of AWBW players who don't check/read/know about this forum and there's no way to announce it on the site so you guys have as good of a chance as getting players together as I do. Lets hope we can actually get enough players for this tournament to get off the ground! Razz

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  InvincibleXI on Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:00 pm

I've dropped a couple of opponents a message, we'll see if they respond. Everdan, you're in contact with some of the Chinese players right? Maybe you could ask them?

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:04 pm

the-deadly-shadow has also agreed to play, so that brings us up to 7 plus whatever other players you guys can find and maybe a couple others on my end.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  MorganLeah on Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:52 pm

I haven't played a team game in ages, let's do this

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Iordor on Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:02 pm

Thanks for the reminder, but I'll have to pass. College, GF, and doctor who has left me with time for little else. Good luck everyone.
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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Kamuscha on Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:36 pm

Please count me in. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:14 pm

Great! I've added Morgan and Kamuscha to the list of players. Also, thanks for the update Iordor and sorry to hear you won't be able to play.

EDIT: That puts us as a total of 9 players! We can officially start at any time and have enough for a tournament. I'll give it through the end of this weekend and after that, I'll go ahead and close the ticket booth and lay the tournament out for as many players as we have at the time!

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:18 am

Attention!



Tournament signups will be closing in 24 hours! If you have not signed up and would like to join, please be sure to do so before 9AM (EST) on Tuesday, February 24th. If you are unsure whether you are officially signed up or not, you can check the first post of this topic- all usernames that appear on the list with a link to their AWBW profile are signed up, and if your name is not linked to your profile, you are not signed up.

After signups have closed, details about the progression of the tournament will be posted here and will be based on the number of players participating.

EDIT: TacticsCommand has responded to my PM and joined the tournament. That brings us to 10 players!

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:02 am

And with that, the tournament signups are officially closed. New information about games, maps, and layout coming soon!

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Nyvelion on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:47 pm

Sure, I'm interested in joining.
As a reminder, even though I've been around AWBW for awhile, I haven't been any good at it in many years, so my apologies to whoever is on my team. Messing around is fun and all but I won't try to mess up someone's else chance's of winning in a team game.
I think I'll just make my goal: Not last place.
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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:25 pm

Okay, great! No worries about your partner, they'll change a lot at the beginning as you'll see here. This is my layout for 10 players, but I'll modify the Round Robin a bit to work with 11. The number of games/maps and specifics will change a bit, but the idea should be the same. That said, here's my proposed layout with pending edits:


  1. Players will be assigned a random number from 1-10 for use in placing them in games. This will happen behind the scenes and players will not need to know or remember their numbers.

  2. Players will participate in a 6-game Round Robin. This is a bit complicated due to the team aspect and number of players but if we want fewer games we can do that, though it won't work out as nicely. Basically, as I currently have it, there will be 5 maps used and each map will have 3 total games played on it. Everybody will play on each map once and one map twice (the duplicate will be different for everybody), everybody will play on opposite teams as every other player at least once, everybody will have 3 players show up twice as opponents, and nobody will have the same partner more than once. Here is the proposed schedule using player numbers that will later be replaced with usernames (as discussed above):


    As an example, Players 1 and 8 will play twice on Map 1, Players 6 and 10 will play twice on Map 2 etc. Player 1 will play against every other player once except for Players 3, 5, and 8 which will be opponents twice each. Player 1 will be teamed up with Players 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 10, so there are no duplicate partners. The numbers may change, but this principle is true for everyone.

  3. Players will be assigned ranks based on record and performance during the Round Robin. The lowest 2 seeds will be eliminated from the tournament at this point. In the case that players have equivalent records, other factors will be taken into consideration in determining the appropriate seed such as how they performed against each other and other players with similar records and whether their teammate(s) were large contributors to any wins/losses. In other words, if Players 5 and 7 had identical records and each won 1 match against each other, but 5 only won one of their games because of their partner being extremely good, Player 7 would be given a better seed. Similarly, had Play 5 only lost a match due to a teammate's blunder, Player 5 would get the better seed etc. For this purpose, I will reviewing the replays of every tournament game so it is the responsibility of the players of each game to notify me immediately upon completion of the game!

  4. The top 8 players will enter the team elimination round based on the brackets below. Top seed player in each match has the option to select a map based on the criteria outline in my first post and subject to my approval


  5. The top seed player of the winning team is given 1st place and their teammate gets 2nd place. 3rd place is the highest seed of the 2nd place team and 4th place is their teammate. If there is interest, a 3rd/4th place team match can take place to determine 5th-8th place players.


Alright, let me know if anyone has questions, complaints, confessions, or condiments they'd like to share and I'll do my best to address them all and get an up-to-date version of this as out as well. Also, yes, for those of you who are wondering, I made both game schedules with Excel... because I'm cool like that... or something.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:21 pm

Alright boys and girls, here it is, the moment you've all been waiting for! Here's the official tournament schedule!



Round Robin
_______________________________________________________________________

I've completed the 11-player game schedule and assigned numbers to all participants. The resulting game schedule is as follows:


If the image is too large to fit on your browser window or too small to read, you can click on the image to see the full-size original. Each player will have 4 games spread over 3 maps and everyone will play on one of the maps twice. Everybody will have a chance to play against 8 of the 10 other participants, except for Kamuscha and TacticsCommand, who unfortunately play on opposing teams twice, thereby reducing the number of unique players they face to 7. Other than that, there are no repeated opponents and you will never have the same teammate more than once! (not counting elimination games)

I'll be posting maps and CO bans soon too, I'm nearly ready. I'll try to keep CO bans light so there's a lot of freedom for players and, just in case it isn't clear, game settings/bans will be identical on all tournament games played on any given map.




Elimination Rounds
_______________________________________________________________________

As previously discussed, performance in the round robin will be used to seed the top 8 players while the remaining 3 are eliminated.
Once the round robin is complete the elimination round will begin based on the following bracket (which is the same as in my last post):


The top seed player of each elimination round game will choose the map, pending my analysis/approval an subject to my rules, though I will try to be as flexible as possible here while still making sure the match is fair. When the championship game is over, the top seed player of the winning team is given 1st place and their teammate gets 2nd place. 3rd place is the highest seed of the 2nd place team and 4th place is their teammate. Again, if there is interest, a 3rd/4th place team match can take place to determine 5th-8th place players.




Other Notes
_______________________________________________________________________

I plan to create the first round of games sometime this weekend and hopefully start them early next week. I will only be posting general information about tournament games here and the rest will come in PM's on AWBW so be sure to keep your AWBW inboxes clear for incoming messages! I will also be waiting to start each game until I've received a message from a representative of each team to confirm they are ready/content with team CO choices. If confirmation is not received within 48 hours of all players joining, the game will be started regardless, so please ensure an open line of communication with me and other players. If you will be inactive (temporarily) or need extra time due to extenuating circumstances, notify me and I can make accommodations- please do not abuse this privilege! Also, while I highly, highly encourage strategy discussion with your teammates in this tournament, keep in mind that this is not mandatory and anybody may choose to ignore or disagree with their teammate's suggestions. That's just part of the game so you'll have to take it as it comes.

As I said before, I will reviewing the replays of every tournament game so it is the responsibility of the players of each game to notify me immediately upon completion of the game! There will be multiple games running concurrently and I cannot keep track of when they all finish. Speaking of which, I will be running all games of the same map/round concurrently and the next round will not start until all of the previous round's games have finished unless we run into substantial delays etc.

One last thing I want to mention is conduct. I want everybody to have a good time so lets try to be friendly, honest, and sportsmanlike, okay? Remember you will be partnered with some of your opponents at various points, so don't get anyone upset. On the other hand, (appropriate) competitive trash talk is welcome, just don't get carried away.  Smile  I doubt this will become a problem, but on the off chance it does, notify me and I'll handle it as necessary.

Alright guys, that's all I have for now. Stay tuned for map and game announcements!


Last edited by Xmo5 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  InvincibleXI on Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:24 pm

The pairings aren't visible by the way, the resolution is off. Also, Sonja's SCOP glitch has been fixed hasn't it? Should she really be banned? Other than that, things sound great!

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  WalkerBoh on Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:49 pm

Just wanted to mention that I fixed the Sonja SCOP glitch regarding extra moves, so unless there's something else Sonja should be okay to use.

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  Xmo5 on Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:33 pm

What do you mean they aren't visible? I can see them without an issue from both the computer I posted from and my laptop. Can you post a screen shot so I can try and fix it?

Also, I didn't realize the glitch was actually fixed, I just knew you were working on it. Glad to hear that! Thanks!

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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

Post  InvincibleXI on Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:51 pm

The elimination ones are visible for me but not the group schedule which is just way too tiny for me to see. I don't know if it's just me though.




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Re: 2v2 Teams Tournament

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