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Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

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Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:39 am

Predeployeds are great and in fact more realistic in a sense of real war. The action gets started sooner and the ratio of infantry spam is generally reduced.

The problem is that their use has been rather dismissed around  awbw because of some difficulties in making such maps fair.  Basically, The first player will get his predeployed units to the centre first ! Fta.
This map has only smallish number of predeployeds but serves as example of fta
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=64598
first player gets his rockets and the other heavy stuff to centre first (edit: well, perhaps we should say to a useful location first).

Ways round the problem are discussed in the old forum and wikis. A simple solution is to get the second players predeployed units and relocate them "half a days movement" closer to center (or whatever useful destination).
Of course immobile predeployeds (eg. a rockets unit trapped behind pipe or mountain) should not be moved.
The FTA counter attempts to give half of what player 1 can achieve in day 1.

Units trapped temporarily behind pipeseam (eg) may need special consideration: In the example above the heavy units quickly break themselves out and so fta is clear; in other cases, for example with a seam trapped arty unable to blast and get itself out, then fta is not clear as each player decides when to commit resources to go and release the arty and fta or sta might arise in critical cases where early release outweighs considerably the initial investment of firepower which could have been deployed immediately to a fighting front. A difficult decision which is less prone to unfairness and more down to skillfull timing.

We really need more good pre-deployed maps so that people get accustomed and see how to make them properly.    We also could do with a map category for pre-deployed maps.
Awbw main site already has an automated predeployeds filter but this includes all the majority of maps with merely a simple infantry FTA counter. So we really want a separate category for proper predeployeds maps , as with other map categories maps, the maps would be selected by hand (map committee).

Until then we can use this thread to keep a list.

We can distinguish various cases:
...1 Few predeployeds such as a black boat often ready supplied as lake transport or an enclosed arty

... 2 Significant force of predeployeds playing major role in determining outcome from start used in  parallel with usual capture phase infantry spam situation

... 3 Total pre-deployment extreme . With No bases for usual production,  or perhaps bases with severely limited production capacity.   Eg due to bans, or say enclosure within mountains to limit deployment to footsoldiers, etc.

.... 4 Eccentric maps with little consideration of balance and perhaps extreme numbers of units often unplayable or not suitable for tourneys or sensible games.

Please post below any predeployeds maps you know of, or  feel free to comment.


Last edited by Blanci on Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:55 am; edited 4 times in total

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Best Sakuya NA on Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:24 am

If I remember correctly, Headphone tried some really cool pre-deployed stuff a while back on one of his accounts, was a lot of what you're describing. I'll see if I can find them but feel free to look yourself too.
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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:55 pm

Thanks. I will have a look at headphones account.
Wondering how can I find headphones other accounts?
I have forgotten how. There used to be a link on mainsite to a page with a user search facility where one could find all users containing the expression "headphones" for example.
Unfortunately the link was removed. The page still exists I think, but I don't recall the page address.
Well I know one of his aliases is daehphones ..an anagram! But the others? I shall try "headphones 2" etc.
Cheers again . Any further info received gratefully.

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:36 am

Theres quite a few maps (in 1st category) with a single predeployed transport per side and here s a nice one made by Headphones called "carnation" which a good starting point for discussing any fta issues
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=56284


Predeployed landers on lake might possibly give some fta issue. For example the first
player may get more chance of blocking his opponents early capture of a port and interfere
with his initial deployment plans. But that is arguable, as the second player may be
equally able to do similar or perhaps the lander has better jobs like quickly transporting
stuff to frontline. And in any case, we dont want to throw away the baby with the
bathwater. This aspect needs to be experienced more at awbw to get a better understanding.
The issues are surely complex as there can be a lot of interactions between different
possible battle objectives. (sorry about spoilers but i am here defending the use of such
predeployeds at least until further analysis). For now positives outweigh negatives imo.


Please feel free to post opinions and points about fairness etc of predeployeds.

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:09 pm

Edit-- added into opening post info on balance with units trapped temporarily behind pipeseam

PS. It is very hard to find examples of maps with considerable number of predeployeds. For example 2 tank and 2 arty and 2 apc. Each.

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Best Sakuya NA on Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:24 am

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  MorganLeah on Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:33 pm

It's not exactly a traditional predeployed map, but I've dabbled a bit: http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=57635

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:17 am

thanks for info guys.
Militia in the Councel Room  (by Daehphones ...Headphones other account)
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=59492
In its present experimental form this map has no bases and you get predeployed 13 assorted units and 4 landers.  It is already a complex example having the predeployeds on an island.  Theres quite a few balance questions.  But perhaps more importantly  this is quite a small number of units and I think we get standoff situations quite quickly.  And without funding from cities ones obligations are very different than in a typical AW game. At least he HQs here are important clearly.
Just wondering what experiences and knowledge about this type of game might have been reported in the old forum. Need to do a search while it is back up (shows up in some kind of rough beta form today).
This map should be well playable simply putting a couple of bases on the said island to give a significant supply of units.  
Balancing is different and possibly awkward, the number of landers, and landing sites is important, but may indeed be small issue, and still playable. Unclear.


Inundation   by  MorganLeah
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=57635
This is a very big and complex map... possibly fun and playable, of 9 games nobody bothered to leave comment on map unfortunately. Please anyone have a go and report back if it works and is fun.  But because of its complexity I dont want to think much about the issues of balancing it yet.. i think we should theorise over somewhat smaller less complex cases first .

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:05 am

thanks for info guys.

Militia in the Councel Room  (by Daehphones ...Headphones other account)
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=59492
In its present experimental form this map has no bases and you get predeployed 13 assorted units and 4 landers.  It is already a complex example having the predeployeds on an island.  Theres quite a few balance questions.  But perhaps more importantly  this is quite a small number of units and I think we get standoff situations quite quickly.  And without funding from cities ones obligations are very different than in a typical AW game. At least he HQs here are important clearly.
Just wondering what experiences and knowledge about this type of game might have been reported in the old forum. Need to do a search while it is back up (shows up in some kind of rough beta form today).
This map should be well playable simply putting a couple of bases on the said island to give a significant supply of units.  
However balancing is different and probably awkward, the number of landers, and landing sites is important, but may indeed be small issue, and still playable. Unclear.


Inundation   by  MorganLeah
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=57635
This is a very big and complex map involving big land and sea and tons of islands and about 10 heavy predeployeds and usual bases too... possibly fun and playable, of 9 games nobody bothered to leave comment on map unfortunately. Please anyone have a go and report back if it works and is fun.  But because of its complexity I dont want to think much about the issues of balancing it yet.. i think we should theorise over somewhat less complex cases first .

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Xmo5 on Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:55 pm

I'm not sure if this qualifies for being in your second category, but back before I knew too much about map designing, I made this map which I think has a cool concept:

Invasion Confirmed

Basically, you have 2 parallel battles and in each battle one player has a predeployed "invasion" force while the other has a traditional starting base etc. FTA wouldn't be as significant of an issue to overcome perfectly unless units can easily (especially early on) transfer from one battle to the other or if it literally came down to capturing each other's HQ on the exact same day. For example, on a traditional 2 base setup, you could give BM 2x infantry so that the "base player" always moves before the corresponding predeployed opponent. Granted that would give BM STA in either of the two cases I mentioned above, but otherwise, both sides should be fairly identical in how they play. Oh, and things like towers, silos, and labs would have to be avoided because they can impact the entire battle based on a single front, potentially adding FTA.

I think sometime in the near future I'll try a more up-to-date, playable, and balanced version of this map. The trick will be making the fronts nearly independent while still offering chance for a large scale battle at the end if both invading forces lose. Alternatively, both sides could have an HQ, but that doesn't make for someone invading, does it?

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Re: Predeployed Maps are Great . New Category. List.

Post  Blanci on Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:08 am

reply to xmo5 re: map "invasion confirmed".
Thanks. Nice. I wouldnt mind trying out this very unusual and original scenario.

However as far as predeployed maps go, this would be just a small (but significant in context) predeployed set. Also it is a special kind of set up as you have explained with a small predeployed group against a traditionally purchased group.  It is a special case and interesting idea.
However maps i really want to find are less interesting (at least superficially)... possibly apparently just head-banging cases of a mass of predeployeds against another enemy of predeployeds. Nothing too sophisticated is needed. Sophistication might arise in the way players choose to then use their units. This is something quite unusual at AW and i think we have little idea of best kind of strategies etc even for basic cases.

It is amazing how many cool types of game can be possible within AW type framework. It seems like the olympics with lots of different events possible. No one can hope to be expert at all of them. We could expect specialists in each game type as the strategies and thinking seem radically different from one gametype to another.  See also the recently promoted limited funds gamestyle with a big starting fund but zero or low property income setting. Could have a lot in common with mass predeployed game.

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