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grit is not broken

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grit is not broken

Post  dudeman33 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:28 pm

I originally thought that there was only a broken trio (hachi Colin kanbei)
But after reading up on this forum I've found that
People think grit is broken
And I must ask my friends why I sorta understand your reasoning with the plus1 range and making infantry meat shield to protect you indirect units
But there one major factor your all forgetting .........
Grits direct units have - 1. Attack power which may not be a big deal to you
Buy it really is this means that grit air units are terrible especially his battle copters his direct land units aren't much help either they only do about 4 damage to each other meaning that it will take you 3 tries to kill other units
And against power based cos such as kanbei Grimm and max he'll get wrecked
Soo thats my argument

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Re: grit is not broken

Post  Xmo5 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:27 pm

The problem is that his +1 range is a day-to-day power (D2D) and is, therefore, active all the time. (Jake has to use his SCOP to get that!) Having a +1 range means that by default, every indirect unit will outrange your opponents equivalent unit, and when the battlefronts are set, all you have to do is slowly back your opponent up because you can reach them while they can't reach you. When he uses his COP or SCOP (which are both average cost), he basically gains the ability to hit any unit within attacking range of his meatshield of infantry. Alternatively, he can hold onto it and watch his opponent retreat to avoid getting hit, allowing the fear of his COP/SCOP to win the battle for him.

Sure, Max can probably do some serious damage to Grit's meatshields and eventually break through, but once Grit has a solid wall set up, he can control large zones of the map with little difficulty/repositioning while Max has to constantly be on the run. If he ever wants to break through, Max has to basically save up a large force of tanks for his COP/SCOP and, even then, some solid planning on Grit's part can minimize the damage. Similar story with Grimm, though D2D he has a better chance breaking through the wall. Also, Kanbei is considered broken too, so I think that example is irrelevant. Grit does have weaknesses, especially with air units, as you mentioned. In certain scenarios where air units make a very significant impact on the game, Grit might not be broken in the same way where Hachi and Sensei might not be broken on maps with no cities (or ghosted cities).

The point is that when a CO is considered broken, it means that they are much more powerful than other COs on most of the maps that people tend to play on (especially for Global League). There tend to be enough chokepoints on those maps (in general) that Grit's cheap artillery and infantry can often win the battle with little thought in the way of strategy. Even when airports are involved, his AA still have a good chance of OHKOing enemy copters, despite his weakness with direct units. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that when two equal players compete on AWBW, if one player picks Grit and the other player must pick a non-broken CO, it's uncommon to find a scenario where Grit loses.

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sad

Post  Blanci on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:53 am

It is unfortunate that dudeman and other newcomers don't easily see the knowledge base and reasoning discovered by the many top players at awbw over the past ten years or so. The forums and wiki's need organising and correcting better.

Literally ALL of the many past (and a few still present) top AWbw players which probably number about twenty or thirty or more ,
all finally concurred many years ago that there are FIVE brokens not THREE.  Kanbei grit Colin sensei hachi.
Unfortunately juigi/iordor thread title says there are only three too.

Yes it is interesting to debate the validity of grit or any other awbw knowledge or belief. But really it should be done after new players get a chance to read what the previous experts discovered and believed and why. And like I always say we can and should challenge stuff but not in a total vacuum ignorant of history.

Unfortunately juigi/iordor topic title incorrectly says there are three both in this forum and its original in old forum.
That title of juigis/ iordor needs changing urgently.
How many other newcomers are ignorant of this and other basic stuff well known to us older generation?

The grit debate ..... will give more refs and info later.

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Re: grit is not broken

Post  Kamuscha on Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:39 pm

dudeman33 wrote:
After reading up on this forum I've found that people think grit is broken.

But there one major factor you're all forgetting.........

Grits direct units have -1 Attack power which may not be a big deal to you.
This means that grit air units are terrible especially his battle copters. His direct land units aren't much help either, they only do about 4 damage to each other meaning that it will take you 3 tries to kill other units.

And against power based COs such as Kanbei, Grimm and Max he'll get wrecked.

Soo thats my argument.

If you are up to it, I will take your argument and put it into practice. I will be Grit and you can choose either Kanbei, Grimm or Max according to your argument. And you can also pick any map from the Global League Map list here. http://awbw.amarriner.com/categories.php?categories_id=26

I will be waiting for you.
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Re: grit is not broken

Post  Blanci on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:25 am

Yeeeehaaaah, very interesting these challenges. But unfortunatey they never seem to get accepted.
And anyway if dudeman is not as experienced a player as kamuscha then the results could be questioned.
To do this kind of experiment would be better with a number of players on various maps and
also players could try both sides ( not against themselves) to get a better feel for what is the difference.

So basically anyone interested in testing this stuff can simply set up games Grit v Max or whoever, then play and report back here results
and gamelink for our perusal.
Actually for Grit to have his broken status revoked would need him to have problems against more than just one special CO I suppose.
Anyhow, I will put out some in public when I get time.

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Re: grit is not broken

Post  MaraSargon on Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:06 am

I feel like this guy read one of my AWDS guides and then did exactly what I tell people not to do, which is try to apply the logic of that game to one with completely different mechanics.
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Re: grit is not broken

Post  Xmo5 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:50 pm

You might be giving him too much credit; I still can't tell when he's serious and when he's trolling, but it's always a distinct possibility with him.

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Re: grit is not broken

Post  Nyvelion on Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:14 pm

You feel like he can read?
He's never taken any of the lengthy map advice given to him, whether intended to be helpful, or something I said.
I'm nearly convinced that he's illiterate, under 15, and left handed.
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Re: grit is not broken

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