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Rachel and Kindle SCOP

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Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  InvincibleXI on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:39 pm

Hey, does anyone here know the exact mechanics of Rachel's SCOP? Playing a league match against her, and wondering how best to deflect it as some people were mentioning. I vaguely recall something about the missiles targeting the most HP damage, highest cost, and I can't remember the last one, but I'm not sure whether any are correct. Similarly, how does Kindle's SCOP work, +3% per city only, or does it include a bonus for bases, airports, HQ, comm tower etc? I suppose normally with Kindle it makes more sense to just stick to her COP, but the SCOP seems pretty good too based on the stats I see if it can be saved up for. Thanks! Very Happy

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  WalkerBoh on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:27 am

For Rachel, the three missiles target:
- Max total HP
- Max total unit value (taking into account hp too, not just base value)
- Max # of infantry (doesn't take into account hp, but capturing units are counted double - not sure if this counts mechs)

For Kindle, it's +3% per city only. Other types of properties don't count for her attack boost. Kindle's SCOP is definitely underused - if she has 12-13 cities, it's a pretty significant boost that allows a lot of extra OHKOs.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  InvincibleXI on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:18 am

I see, awesome, so if say I have a clump of a lot of infantry, I'd be able to deflect two of the three missiles there? Max total HP meaning max total HP of damage dealt, and similarly for max total unit value right? So for instance a 4HP tank would attract the same attention as a 10HP one, or would the 10HP one be targeted more? Thanks again for the info!

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  WalkerBoh on Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:47 am

Yeah that's correct. And it's one of the reasons Rachel is weak on larger maps.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  InvincibleXI on Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:19 am

I see, yeah, the SCOP is super scary to anticipate (normally you have so many units within 1 missile range, and to anticipate a bunch of them getting crippled in one blow is horrifying), but often it turns out fine, with only 1 hitting the bulk of your forces as long as you can prepare, especially on larger maps as you say.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  WalkerBoh on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:55 pm

And I see I didn't answer your earlier question fully. For the HP missile, it is total hp dealt. So there is no bias for a 4hp vs 10 hp tank. Not sure if unit value is used as a tiebreaker if needed...

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  Everdan on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:42 am

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/912311899

I found this nice resource on the Chinese forums, somebody went to test out exactly how Rachel's missiles target.
Basically the first two pictures show that when there aren't any infantries on the map, the inf-targeting missile explodes at (0,0) by default. The last one shows that the inf-targeting missile hits the clump of infantry instead of (0,0).

So to add on to what Walker said, the last missile does not include mechs as a target.

There were 2 questions there that I found interesting:

1. Do the missiles account for damaging Rachel's own units and subtract this from the max HP / max unit value?
2. What order are the missiles launched in?

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  InvincibleXI on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:44 am

1) From this situation here http://awbw.amarriner.com/replay.php?games_id=221886&ndx=22, it looks like it doesn't for max unit value at least, since max unit value factoring in her own artillery would be hitting my artillery instead of my BCpter and her artillery. The max infantry thing didn't factor in her tank either. Wouldn't know about max HP though.
2) From the same situation here, assuming that Rachel would hit more the same group more than once with a missile if it suited her criteria, it seems that the max infantry was before the max HP, since max HP initially would also have been the infantry cluster with 13 HP damage. After the hit it became 9 HP damage, tied with the tank, anti air and infantry in the southwest, which presumably won the unit value tie break.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  Xmo5 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:09 am

The Advance Wars Wiki makes it sound like her missiles hit infantry, then max damage, then max HP damage. It also says that for missiles 2 and 3, the value and HP respectively of her own losses would be subtracted out. No such accommodation is made for missile 1.

Obviously this isn't an AWBW resource so I don't know how well this translates over to what we have set up, but it might be helpful nonetheless.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  WalkerBoh on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Xmo5 wrote:The Advance Wars Wiki makes it sound like her missiles hit infantry, then max damage, then max HP damage. It also says that for missiles 2 and 3, the value and HP respectively of her own losses would be subtracted out. No such accommodation is made for missile 1.

Obviously this isn't an AWBW resource so I don't know how well this translates over to what we have set up, but it might be helpful nonetheless.

From looking at the source, here's how it works:
- The order is Infantry, Cost, HP.
- The second and third missiles will take into account damage incurred by any missiles launched before it.
- The Infantry missile only takes into account units named "Infantry" - mechs are not included.
- The Infantry missile weights infantry in the process of capturing as 2x a normal infantry.
- The Cost and HP missiles use the rounded (displayed) value of a unit's hp, not the actual value.

I actually don't see anything that subtracts the value of your own units, it looks like it just considers opposing units (based on team alignment for multiplayer matches). It's possible I'm missing something but I don't think so.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

Post  Blanci on Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:57 am

It s hard to believe after 10 years and millions of games played online that we are communicating basic game rules in a forum discussion.
And my recent opponent , a top player, didnt get what he wanted or expected from Rachel !
A good wiki for reference is important. We have a partially completed new one but  need to check it is correct and updated and experienced players shouldn't become complacent about the wiki which is most important for newbs and also needed by all the community for many different reasons.
The old wiki covered very much things in depth, though a bit disorganised with some repetition , confusion and contradictions. It may be available on a waybackmachine type site? Anyone can check or edit the new wiki.

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Re: Rachel and Kindle SCOP

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