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Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

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Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:00 am

First topic message reminder :

Hi everyone, and welcome to the game Everdan v Insignia21! The game will be played on this map: http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=65682 and the COs banned are the broken 5, the luck COs, Sturm and Sonja (for glitch reasons). After each move me (Insignia21) and Everdan will comment on the position prior to our move, our thoughts and the actions we take. Feel free to add your own comments on the game here as well, although try not to give advice as to how to play on an upcoming move I think. Hope this experiment works out well, and people enjoy it! Very Happy


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:14 am

@Xmo and theether: Agreed with Invi, it's wonderful to know that our efforts are being appreciated. I mean, the game's fun by itself, but knowing other people are watching this is the icing on the cake.

Usually I make decisions by intuition, i.e. I play whatever seems right to me, which means my decisions are usually fairly snappy. Of course I try to back it up with calculation, too - if it obviously fails for some reason, then I won't play it. Square counting and damage considerations normally factor into my decisions as well, so I don't think I'm doing anything too out of the way there. I'd say I am probably a little more alert in this game, because it's actually being watched by people, but otherwise this is how I normally play. Though I must say it's quite the experience to write down all my thoughts - something about doing that seems to make them much clearer to me, which is actually really helpful!

As an aside, I'm really loving every turn of this game, it's challenging yet rewarding. I certainly wouldn't mind doing this again in the future!

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:09 am



So, he’s hit my tank in the south for a 3-3, I was rather hoping that he’d do only 2 damage but oh well. My infantry also has been hit for 5-9 instead of the 5-8 I’d hoped. A couple of bad pieces of luck in combat. Elsewhere he’s brought his artillery to bear on my comm tower. In the central front he’s pushing for my city, damaging my infantry and charging forward. He’s tempting me to hit his tank, I’m pretty inclined to take him up on his challenge.

I start by finishing off the damaged tank, bringing my artillery into place to hold off the infantry on the comm tower. I may as well hit his artillery for 1HP, since I only have 1 strike on his mountain infantry anyway. 8-5 isn’t too bad for that fight there although he started with 9. My other infantry approaches together with my tank.

In the centre, I make some calculations about the tank engagement. I hit him for 6 HP, get hit by his Cptr for 6-4 (probably) or 7-4 maybe. 6 HP of a tank is worth 3HP of a BCptr I think. His tank could hit my Cptr but it’s only 1 HP for 1 HP probably. I mean, it’s not as though he has any other units nearby other than a bunch of harmless infantry right? (spoiler: there’s no such thing as a bunch of harmless Sami infantry). I consider going for the city but decide against it, thinking that it’ll just be hit by his infantry anyway. Little do I know they have other targets, so I should probably have gone for it.

I do a bunch of useless and even counterproductive infantry attacks in the north which end up being HP splits, those infantry are going to be finished off next turn. Stupid moves which I should know better than to do, that might cost me in terms of meatshields. A couple of really bad mistakes here.
I finish this poor turn off by building a BCptr to maintain air supremacy, a tank in the south to get parity, and an infantry in the north.


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:11 pm



Hmm, looks like I need to make better plays on the south. The arty should really have gone only 1 space south of the city to preserve an attack point on the shoal infantry, but oh well... I need to finish off those infantry anyway, so the arty hits the 8hp one, bringing it down to a 2hp. The 5hp inf retreats to the city, while a fresh one KO's the one on the bottom. This brings it into range of his arty, but it's a decent trade at least. Yeah, I really couldn't afford another wonderful misclick there....

In the centre he's hit my tank, bringing it to 4 hp, so I retreat it to a nearby city to heal for a couple turns. Meanwhile, he's now done me the favour of exposing that B-copter, which I get first strike on. 7-4 is actually the best case scenario for me - it could have been 6-4. The rest of my nearby infantry swarm the B-copter, and a lucky hit gets the KO (it could have been 1 HP, but that would have been win enough for me). Conveniently, the infantries there can also assemble into a meatshield that blocks the other copter from attacking my wounded one. So, effectively, this trade has been 0.6 tanks for 0.7 copters (0.65? My copter's probably a little lower than 7HP) That's a trade I'd make any day, especially against Eagle. My AAs and remaining copters should be able to handle his copters for the next few turns.

In the north it appears he's attacked my infantries, but hasn't actually gotten any advantage from it. Shrug. I kill both of them.

Sending an infantry to capture his city (the one I gave up! grrr) is a tough decision. Well, obviously it's going to die. But if he does commit a tank to attack, that just barely brings it within range of my B-copter once I move it up. And 2 inf's won't be enough to get the KO on mine, which can comfortably reverse the first strike. (140/130 infs are like Kindle's units on cities!) I decide to go for it. 1 infantry isn't too much to sacrifice if I can lure out 2 of his infantries at minimum.

My other tank parks on the central city, my B-copter advances forward, the damaged tank retreats to recover, both AA's advance. ~18k funds is enough for me to get a tank, copter and 2 infs, so that's what I do. End turn.



Edit: I actually didn't see that my northern AA was in range of his central tank once he'd cleared my capturing inf. Poop.
Oh well, you live and you learn. And I need to learn to be more careful, apparently. >.<

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  WalkerBoh on Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:42 pm

Good stuff guys, thanks for taking the time to record your thoughts like this. I'll hold off on commenting on the specific tactics and strategies until the game's over. But I imagine it helps your play quite a bit to write down the justification for your moves, probably makes you think twice or look at it in a different way.

I will say that I'd prefer to have the commentary not done turn-by-turn. It's a good idea for you guys to record your thoughts on each turn after you make your moves, but I don't necessarily like that your opponent can also see your thoughts and intent. A big part of the game is predicting what your opponent will do and planning for a variety of contingencies, and this seems somewhat ruined by being able to know exactly what your opponent is thinking.

The best format seems to me to have a discussion of the game after it's complete, where (after knowing the end result) you can focus on the most important good and bad moves that led to the outcome. The notes are useful here to remember what you were thinking at the time. The biggest advantage of this is that it is less to read - realistically people are more likely to read if the commentary is shorter, and more likely to learn if it's distilled into the most important points rather than being so all-encompassing.

Alternatively, it would be interesting to have people not playing the game commenting on mistakes etc. by the players, while the game is going. Ideally the players in the game wouldn't be reading this commentary, or at least the commentary would never discuss the current turns. But this would help encourage more community engagement throughout the game.

Just a thought for next time, you guys are still bad-ass for doing this.

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:23 pm

Thanks WalkerBoh for your feedback! Definitely having your opponents see your plans changes the game significantly, but so far, and I'm not sure if it's been deliberate or not, almost every turn commentary has been published after the opponent has made his move. I do think it would be a good idea to make this an official policy so our comments won't have to withhold anything. Many moves and mistakes wouldn't have happened if we had been able to read our opponents comments for their previous turn Smile

For me generally I calculate the justifications for my moves first as I play them like I normally do and recap them after the event so I don't get confused. Definitely having the game on display makes me focus on it a bit more, though I'm not sure if I've played better because of that. A post-game analysis is more succinct definitely and we'll probably do that too.

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:13 am



I wholeheartedly agree with Everdan about careless mistakes. Like forgetting his infantry are 140% attack beasts. 3 infantry finished off my 4HP BCptr suffering a total of 2 HP loss! It was a complete shock to see my BCptr gone, but that’s one mistake I think I’ll learn from in future. He’s mopped up the infantry I send attacking stupidly earlier, which could actually cost me a lot more than I thought, because my north and centre are looking very exposed now. In the south, he’s denied me from the Comms Tower for now, but that battle is turning for sure, it’s just taking way too long.

First things first, I hit his infantry with my arty, and his arty with my infantry. 2HP damage from 12% is a nice plus that I think I deserve. My 5HP tank heads to the city to recover and rejoin the fray. My infantry come closer, including one within capturing range of the tower.

There are several options in the central front. The most obvious, which I do without much thought, is the removal of the infantry on my city. I can hit him with infantry, but I’m low on fodder in the north due to committing too much to the Comms tower. If my tank helps out, it will be vulnerable to a Cptr hit, but my Cptr can return fire effectively I think. So I use my tank to hit it, and finish off with an infantry. Oh look at that, the AA behind is suddenly within range of my tank, let’s hit it. You’ve got to be kidding me, 65% becomes 9-4 for some stupid reason.

The other choices aren’t so easy to make. By committing my tank north I’ve abandoned hitting his 7HP BCptr- it would have put me in range of his AA anyway. I’m tempted to hit his tank or his arty with my advanced Cptr, but the risk is too high- he could finish me off for sure with his 4HP AA and his 7HP/full HP Cptrs. I’d rather not overcommit to combat. Hitting his tank wouldn’t do much damage that isn’t healed anyway, and hitting his arty can’t block him from hitting my 9HP tank with his tank. I think that Comms tower would do me a lot of good, so I send one Cptr south instead to finish off that front. The faster it’s done, the faster I can bring those forces northwards, not to mention capture the city there.

I take out his infantry on the mountains and get a bit of good luck killing in 2 hits- I had considered suiciding the 3HP infantry to guarantee the kill when I considered hitting his arty from that square with my Cptr. My 3HP infantry instead parks on the city, asking for his artillery to hit it, which is the only way to hit my tank. At least that wastes the artillery’s move or lures his BCptr closer.

Finally, in the south he’s massing infantry towards the neutral city. I back away slowly instead of confronting, I think I should be able to stop or delay long enough for my arty/tanks.

For the rest, I bring my units forward towards the centre and north. My BCptr carelessly goes too close to his 4HP AA, he can take out my infantry blocking the road with his arty then hit me. That would leave me damaged, and if he brings uses his 7HP Cptr to clear my 3HP infantry then hits my tank behind with his Cptr, and also hits my 9HP tank with his full HP one, would pretty much leave my frontline forces in disarray. Backup is coming, hopefully fast enough, and hopefully he makes a mistake and doesn’t execute this precision strike. In any case, my SCOP is halfway done, and that could end up being what saves me in this critical position. I build a BCptr to maintain air parity at least, a tank in the north where the action is, and 2 more infantry.



Edit: This commentary was done entirely before he went on to execute that exact precision strike.

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:30 am




First thing I notice is that I can fire off COP, if I so choose - I consider it for a while. Doing so would allow me to start capturing the neutral com tower this turn, and the northern city near my com tower. But I need to build up for SCOP, which is much more powerful, and besides, the gain from my COP isn't that much. I decide to hold off. So no +10/+10 this turn. Now to look at the map.

He's hit my AA, bringing it to 4 HP. I curse myself - that AA was really vital for controlling his copters. Now I'm only left with the one, and even that comes with a caveat (to be explained later).

Well, the mistake's been made. What can I do to remedy it? After some analysis, I notice his 2 central tanks + copter are all looking a little exposed... I calculate it out, thinking. Can I do some damage here?

Answer: yes! First my arty KO's his full-hp inf on the road, clearing the way for the injured AA to cripple his central copter, which gets taken down to 5HP. The central tank rolls north to hit his 9-hp tank, bringing it to 8-4. The 6-hp tank on the city attacks it again, bringing it down to 1, and a lucky inf strike gets the KO. Meanwhile the 7-hp copter attacks his 3-hp inf on the city, clearing the way for my BC to come in and get 5hp damage on the tank. So overall, I've sac'ed one AA (it's going to die, really) to get 1.5 tanks and 0.5 copters. Another efficient trade. Unfortunately, however, this particular trade has put him dangerously close to getting his SCOP, which could murder me if I'm not careful. Though it doesn't look like he can get it just yet (that is, without heedlessly sacrificing some units), so I'm safe for the time being.

Now to worry about the south. His B-copter there looks rather menacing, and I can't really afford to let it park on the com-tower or I'm never going to get it. I make the sacrifice of sending my only remaining AA south. It's a tough call, because that AA is really vital for controlling his central copters, and it can be blocked from escape by the 5-hp tank (7hp next turn.) Still, it's worth getting the tower (or so I hope).

17k isn't enough for copter + vehicle + 2 infs, so I build an AA to compensate for the one I just lost, a tank and an inf.

End turn.


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:15 am



So bad things have happened and now I have fully lost control of the combat phase. The SCOPs are approaching so that will probably make or break the game.

In the north, he’s trying to take my city. I can’t stop him in the long run, but I can at least force him to take it using his SCOP, so I commit my crippled tank. Holy shit an infantry just did 2HP damage to my tank on a counterattack. My 6HP Cptr attacks his 7HP one and gets another unsatisfactory split. I hit some of his infantry to lessen the blow of the impending Victory March, and redirect some units to the centre so it doesn’t totally collapse. Air supremacy is pretty important, I think. I decide to forget about the southern comm tower for now, if he wants to take it with Victory March he can do so. Probably not the best move in retrospect.

Other than that things are looking extremely grim. I build a BCptr to at least retain control of the air, a tank in the north which to regain control, and an infantry south and central. Hopefully Eagle’s SCOP will save me, but I’m going to have to be very careful about timing. I don't want to do it too early or too late. Sami's SCOP is very close too, hopefully it won't be too devastating.



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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:49 am



I sac the 3-hp copter to fire off Victory March, and capture 3 of his cities, the neutral one and the southern com tower. While my infantries advance to the point of suicide, most of my vehicles retreat to avoid his impending SCOP. If he doesn't use it, I'm fine with that - my funding advantage should be enough to consolidate.

I make a boatload of mistakes this turn, the first one being that I moved the southern arty into range of his, which means I'm probably now going to lose the south tower. Not a disaster in and of itself but I'm also going to take truckloads of damage from his full-HP arty - I should have weakened it with an infantry strike (dealing 30%) to limit its damage. The second being that I moved the tank from my southern base too far forward, where it's vulnerable upon his SCOP. The third one being that my central BC is vulnerable to his BC upon his SCOP - I'd initially thought he couldn't break the meatshield but HAHAHAHA oh well. That's essentially 4 vehicles worth of damage, which is definitely enough for him to turn the tides here.

I end my turn, awaiting the inevitable Lightning Strike, and hope I don't lose too much of my forces. (though I'm already going to lose 4 vehicles to stupidity...)


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:07 am



Holy cow.

Ok, I’m not going to pretend I didn’t expect the SCOP to hurt, but looking at the carnage really horrified me. 23k v 17k funding with the second comm tower falling is really bad already, and was kind of expected, but the devastation unleashed on my units was pretty shocking. In hindsight the only thing really crippled was my BCptr and loads of infantry, but it felt like more. The swarm of infantry in the centre certainly didn’t help the impression either. This is definitely a crisis.

That said, I really don’t want to use my SCOP yet. I have 2 recently built units which will barely be able to do any damage, and I’m not able to do very many 2-strikes, most of the time I have to move into place for a strike on the second turn, due to good positioning. At first glance a SCOP here may not even be enough to level the battlefield, let alone be the devastating knockout blow I’d hoped for.

Waiting to use my SCOP has plenty of cons too though. Firstly, his 6k funding advantage will give him time to deploy a much stronger force to the front. That isn’t disastrous if I am able to get more units though since the double strike will be multiplied in force many times. Next, his second comm tower will mean I have to be careful not to get destroyed too early. This means backing off or standing firm, which can be done in the north and centre. Finally, of course delaying SCOP will mean that my opponent will get a huge power gauge increase when I do actually use it- for now he’s on his SCOP too and so will receive no stars for the damage. This isn’t that huge though, since a better timed Lightning Strike can virtually end the game.

Unfortunately, the south is about to fall apart. My crippled tank will soon release his AA, and his tank is coming in to wipe out my arty. Retreating and surrendering the comms tower for even longer isn’t ideal either, not that I can really retreat. So, almost by default, that means using my SCOP if at all possible.

A re-evaluation shows that it is indeed possible. I almost click the SCOP button at several times but fortunately don’t screw the game up by blundering like that.

My 9HP BCPtr heads north to hammer his tank on the woods. My tanks there head north too, the advanced one hitting the 8HP infantry on his new advanced city first, and my crippled BCptr retreats to finish it off. It fails somehow, no matter, I had nothing better for it to do next turn anyway. I build a new tank to keep the initiative there. In the centre, my BCptr heads to the mountain and hits the full HP infantry on the plain, and my infantry finishes the job, leaving the path open for a strike on his tank with the BCptr. My other BCptr advances, and I build a new one.

In the south, my artillery hits his. My 1HP tank is the sole non-infantry unit not to move before I use my SCOP. I take care to withhold infantry strikes
till after SCOP is done for the precious 10% attack/defense boost.

With the SCOP, I move forward on all fronts. In the north, I finish off his damaged tank on the plain, using my full HP tank that had previously hit his city infantry, and my 2HP tank to wrap it up. My 8HP BCPtr hits his full strength one for a decent 5-3 split, and my last original tank hits his mountain infantry. I finish off his infantry that captured my city near the north comm tower, and hit the mountain infantry again, leaving it at 1 HP. That mountain range is mine now in a couple of turns. My new tank rolls forward, and the 1HP BCptr finishes off the infantry.

In the centre, my furthest original Cptr sacs itself to take out his 8HP Cptr- the AA can hit it now, but I wanted air supremacy. While that AA is distracted, I may as well commit my other Cptr forwards, it hits his full HP tank, and my tank finishes it off (I briefly considered hitting the AA instead, but the damage ratio didn’t appeal to me, as well as the fact that it would recover 2 HP). My infantry decides to hit his one on the comm tower instead of finishing off his arty, despite the obscene boosts his infantry currently have, the damage calculator shows a favourable transaction, so I hit it twice. I block his AA with an infantry instead of the 1HP tank (since I really don’t want to let that AA out to hit my other Cptr). The tank withdraws to a city to heal. My infantry roll forward, to press the advantage there too.

So ultimately, after the smoke clears, I do have a battlefield advantage, not as much as I would like thanks to the ton of infantry he has, but enough that I think I made the right decision, and to give me a decent chance. His compensation for this is the huge funding edge for the next few turns which will help him recover unit parity. His infantry in the centre are somewhat exposed as I’ve taken out most of the cover behind them, so hopefully I can trap them in a vice and destroy them. The two flanks are pretty much ripe for picking off for me too, so hopefully within 3 turns I can remove the funding problem and fix the comms towers deficit (or reverse it ideally). Things are definitely very much in the balance.

EDIT: While it certainly didn’t feel like it when I saw the horrifying position after my opponent’s SCOP, I agree on hindsight that I’m fortunate Everdan moved a few of his units too far forward. I can only imagine the tough situation if his units had been a little further back.


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:56 am



Those 3 mistakes on the past turn really cost me a lot here. In hindsight, the 3 vehicles I lost really made a difference. Just goes to show how important positioning is against Eagle's SCOP.

The map right now looks horrible for me - I've lost a ton of troops, without gaining any meter because I've just fired off SCOP. I've managed to temporarily get both towers and a funding advantage, but it looks like he'll even it out within a few turns, so I have to hope that my temporary funding advantage will be enough to recoup my losses.

One advantage I do have, for this turn only, is that killing his units won't charge his meter because he's just used SCOP, while they will charge mine. So I should use this chance to get a leg up on the race for the next SCOP (assuming the game lasts that long, which I think is quite likely).

Let's see what I can do from here. My central AA has its pick of copters, so I choose to advance and hit the one closer to his base. Of course it's going to be vulnerable to that tank, but I protect it with a lone mech so I can retaliate if he does choose to attack it. Getting a copter for an AA is already quite nice, and if I can trade off that mech for a sizable chunk of his tank, it'll be more or less worth the units I spent.

The north front looks quite critical now, looking at his vehicle advantage. there. I take the chance to cripple his tank on the plains, bringing it to 5hp. My own tank's going to die next turn, but at the least it'll charge my meter, and I'll get first strike on another one of his tanks.

On the south I do what little damage I can (AA attacks his inf, 10hp inf tackles his arty, 1hp arty chips off another 1 hp from his arty.) I can't stop him from getting that tower for now, but at the least I can delay it for a few more turns.

Overall it's not completely losing yet, but it doesn't look very good for me, and I'm left to wonder how much more I could have done if I hadn't blundered so horribly the previous turn. Oh well. You live and you learn.

I build a copter, tank and 2 infs, and end turn.


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:02 am



So, the morning after the turn before begins. Things look better than they did at the start of my previous turn, either my opponent has made a mistake or the full effects of that double strike are only now clear. The southern front is clear for me, other than a few annoying remnants. The centre is basically a clump of infantry and 2 mechs with a vulnerable AA supporting them. Only in the north are there some issues, with his tank cluster holding out well.

Some janitoring in the south, my arty finishes off his AA, my 7HP infantry finishes off the infantry on the comm tower, my 5HP infantry finishes off the arty. I make a horrendous mistake by hitting his infantry instead of capturing the comm tower, the 1HP damage his infantry deals me is enough to slow down my comm tower capture by 1 turn, costing me significantly in terms of combat. I didn’t expect that to happen but this is yet again a case of me underestimating Sami’s infantry. This was partly motivated by the aim to take the other city ASAP, but even that can be delayed by his incoming infantry. Not the best start.

In the centre, I go to remove his last defender, taking out the shield infantry with by advancing BCptr and my recovering tank. My tank rolls in to the city to hit his AA, yes I know it will get taken out by the mech, but that’s a trade I want to make. My initial plan was actually to sac my crippled units to waste the mechs ammo protecting the tank, and I actually did try this, using my 1HP BCptr to attack the mech. Unfortunately, I forgot that mechs don’t use their primary weapon v BCptrs. Oops.  My advanced BCptr finishes off his AA after my infantry unblocks the road next to it. My infantry takes out the 6HP infantry on the road.

In the north, I use my 2HP tank to finish off his 1HP infantry on the mountain, capturing both vacant cities too. My 10HP tank hits his 8HP one, and the 5HP tank wraps up the job. I try to capture the comm tower, and initially I think I’m going to get it unopposed. His arty is closer than it looks though as I will soon discover.

To end the turn, I build another BCptr, a tank in the north where the battle is fiercest, and an infantry in the centre. I can’t afford another one in the south but I don’t think I’ll need one right now. Hopefully this temporary funding problem will be resolved soon enough.



Last edited by InvincibleXI on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:48 am



Still looking quite bad for me, but I guess it's alright.

The mech hits his tank to bring it down to 3 health. 1 AA + 1 mech for 0.7 tank and 1 copter seems an okay trade. The northern AA moves to the centre to fend off those ravenous copters.

In the north it's looking quite bad, he's going to recapture the cities I spent my SCOP on. I've taken control of 3 of his cities for 3 turns which makes the funding spread 18k, which I think is not bad - that's enough for 2 vehicles + 2 infs. The northern tank (my last one there!) hits his tank for 6 health. Overall I've lost the 8hp tank but dealt enough damage in return that it's worthwhile I think. The arty moves to the city to lock the com tower - I'll need it for the coming turns.

Not much to say on the southern front, where he has a firm grip for now. Perhaps the best thing that's happening there is that he'll take 3 turns to capture my tower and I can probably stop him taking the city.

Spending 18k on copter + tank + 2 infs leaves me at 3.8k funds. With effectively 21k income the next turn (because he'll get my 2 cities), I'm going to hit the magic number of 24k, with 800 for buffer. Well, it's an option at least...

End turn.


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:10 am

No analysis of the new turn yet, though I will be working on one soon. As Everdan hinted, he has indeed built a stealth, so the commentary is going to be a bit sparse from next turn on. BTW, Everdan your messages are full, please delete one so I can send you my message

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:08 am

My bad, I've cleared my inbox. Somehow I thought the system would do it automatically for you. Guess that's not the case >.>

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:32 am



Things are starting to stabilise again at the front, what appeared to be a nice advantage is gone. My tank has been hammered by his mech, and in the north I've been hit hard by his tank. His artillery denies my capture of the other comm tower, and his AA while technically within range, is too well guarded by meatshields to hit.

In the south, I start my painfully slow capture of that comm tower. I finish off the infantry hanging around there, but delay planting my infantry on his city due to his infantry nearby. I'm pretty annoyed at how things have been going, I have played way below par on several key moves and suddenly things look tough again especially with his SCOP half charged.

In the centre I obliterate his mech bringing my tank from the north after deciding that charging the artillery or the tank were both unprofitable (such are the perils when your opponent has 2 towers). I hesitate to charge my Cptrs, opting instead to retreat them this turn, mopping up his infantry and staying away from his AAs. I try to capture his cities and also to meatshield my full HP tank, but do it very poorly. My units move forward.

I leave the north more or less untouched, my infantry hits his artillery for fun instead of staying to be target practice. I build a tank and a BCptr, my resources are still tight so I only build 1 infantry.


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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:53 pm



In case anyone is wondering why there have been no updates, Everdan built a stealth, so the replays are hidden, in addition I can't even copy screenshots to Word, I've just tried to post the most recent screenshot here, hopefully it works. In addition to the logistical problems, obviously they are major strategic difficulties in commenting, since Everdan won't want to reveal the moves of his Stealth, or his reasoning behind other moves sometimes since they may be based on his Stealth moves. To a lesser degree I'd also rather not reveal where I think his stealth is. I'll give some updates as to what has happened since the last post though.

I have been forced back on all fronts, partially due to more poor play in combat but  mainly having to duck his stealth. On the flip side his choice of the stealth has delayed a push on any front, so no disasters yet. My units are staying back to prevent any early strikes by his stealth, time is his enemy in that sense because of the fuel consumption of that unit. He's clearly preparing to address that issue with the APC, which could be a major problem for me in rejuvenating that stealth. His SCOP is fully charged, but he's waiting for the opportune time. Mine technically isn't charged yet, but most first part's of any intended SCOP turn will involve attacks probably enough to fully charge it. The next batch of SCOPs will probably be decisive in this match.

EDIT: FYI the screenshot on the top has now changed to reflect the new position automatically. Pretty clever how the server makes it remarkably hard to save screenshots of each turn as it happens once stealths are in the picture. The plus side is I suppose that picture above can be viewed as a "live" update of the moves as they happen

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  InvincibleXI on Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 am

So, this game just ended with Everdan resigning. The final position is here:

In my opinion, the decision to resign was understandable if slightly premature. Eagle's SCOP is forever going to be on standby ready to decimate the black army if ever they come too close. In the short term while he retreats, I take a few cities to get a funding edge. Meanwhile, the more units deployed to the battlefield, the more deadly the SCOP will be. Sami's SCOP relies on having units close to the enemy lines to take key cities- even if he does manage to use it well at some point, I can live with a short term funding disadvantage, and I can probably rip him apart right after he uses it. There is no reasonable prospect of reaching parity in the air, and the Md tanks will be dealt with by Cptrs and even artilleries. It will take quite a few turns (I have no intention of using my SCOP until I can hit him hard with both turns not just one, so I will slowly push forward, take cities and maneuvre first), but there is very little hope for black.

Ultimately, what determined the outcome of the game? I believe there were a few major phases

1) The CO selection shaped hugely how the game would play out. Sami was a much better choice than I initially thought, because she had a huge advantage in going for the locked up comm towers, which by the way, I think are a brilliant idea, even if I completely missed their subtlety when I started this game. But Eagle remained a fantastic option. The huge map meant that his SCOP would come into play for sure, and air units were quite important too. The SCOP gave me room for errors, as I could afford to get pushed back as long as I wasn't crippled, and this turned out to be decisive. If I had been using another CO, Kindle for instance, I would certainly have lost the game.

2) My capture phase generally gives me an edge or at least parity in funding, and managing to come out of the very early stages with that (albeit down a comm tower) gave me a chance to hold my own even in the combat phase. With Sami, I do think my opponent should have done slightly better there because for a while it looked like I would be able to have an equal situation with a fully charged and unused SCOP- an almost instant win.

3) The combat phase involved me making a few careless mistakes and getting slowly but steadily outplayed by Everdan. His comm tower edge helped him, but in general he did well to do disproportionate damage and push me back. I was outnumbered at the front when the SCOPs first became charged.

4) The first SCOP turn was absolutely critical. Everdan definitely made the right choice of when to use the SCOP, giving him a large funding edge and the 2 comm towers, but should probably have been more careful with a few of his units. Most of them weren't exposed to two strikes, but a few of them were, and almost all were exposed to a single strike from a fairly powerful army. While at the time I thought he had blunted it well, after he commented later I realised it could have been better, and that would have left me in real trouble. My response SCOP was a critical decision, because I didn't want to let him charge his SCOP several bars from my double attack, but if he had moved a few more units out of range I may have been forced to wait, which would have also possibly led to me being forced back temporarily. As it was, when I used my SCOP I was again able to regain at least equality on the field, in fact pushing him back completely from the centre and gaining 1 comm tower for the first time.

5) The consolidation of this advantage didn't go well for me, a continuation of mediocre combat play, and left me with a at best equal setup, in fact overreliance on BCptrs left me very short of land forces at the front. At the key stage: after Everdan's Day 16 (Turn 32), in the centre I had half a tank and 2 Cptrs against 1.5 tanks, 1 AA, 1 mech and 2 Cptrs. This was a great chance for my opponent to build more units and push me back. Instead, he made probably the final decisive error.

6) Building a Stealth was in my opinion an inexplicable move. A Stealth is a defensive unit, primarily for use near to the base, so this big map didn't help it at all (in fact the only way for it to even survive a trip to my lines and back was for him to buy an APC, a further 5k investment). This allowed me to regroup and get my reinforcements up. When the Stealth approached, I simply withdrew slightly before organising and starting to push forward especially my infantry. Once I could afford it, I bought a fighter (20k vs 29k investment) that completely neutralised it (especially with a looming SCOP), and even gave me air supremacy. The knowledge I was about to do this made me also able to focus on tanks since his Cptrs would soon become irrelevant.

7) The few skirmishes that occurred during this period allowed his SCOP to fully charge, while mine was almost full. His infantry were too far away from my lines to use a SCOP well, so he tried a COP instead, knowing that I'd have to wait for the right moment to use my SCOP. The advantage gained by this wasn't huge though, so I just brought in more tanks and slowly pushed forward. Well-founded fear of my SCOP forced him backwards, but that simply allowed my infantry to head towards his most advanced cities and prepare to flip the small funding edge he had to mine. His Md tanks were his last move of desperation, since they hold out well against tanks defensively, but I made sure to arm the advancing army on each flank with an artillery (which would hit it during a SCOP), and started rebuilding my Cptr fleet. Faced with this, he resigned.

Everdan stated that he's busy at the moment, but will add his thoughts later. If anybody has any comments on how the game went, please share. Thanks for following! Very Happy

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Post  Everdan on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:22 pm

Great commentary by Invi!

Yes, the game basically deteriorated very seriously once he crippled most of my army and built up enough charge on his SCOP.

I kept trying to provoke him into using it while trying not to take too much damage, but Invi's a real patient player, and he didn't waste his SCOP, which was definitely the right strategy for him. In the end I was gradually pushed back once he'd built up SCOP again.

I do think CO choice was crucial here - I'll be the first to admit I haven't had much experience with Eagle, so I probably underestimated how much of a boon his superior air units are. In the end I was pretty much forced to ram my copters into his, which was horribly painful. Sami was a decent choice but ultimately proved insufficient even with the tower advantage. Or maybe I didn't build enough mechs, but I guess I'll never know.

Given the CO choices, I think I played the first part of the game as well as I could have, though even then I definitely screwed up against his SCOP.

I will say that the stealth was played for a few reasons: first, because based on available funding, it would have taken him a couple turns to counter with a fighter, and second I was trying to get any advantage I possibly could in the face of Eagle's SCOP. The plan was for my stealth to force his line back in the meantime, holding off the captures of my cities. If you account for the 2 or 3 turns delay in capturing my central cities, I think it could have been justifiable funding-wise. But it was brilliantly countered by Invi, who calmly retreated his forces out of range, regrouped and pushed forward once more, this time with air support.

The part about my BCs being irrelevant wasn't the main point - I did have AAs to back them up anyway, so it's not like they were totally vulnerable. The main thing that enabled his domination was his threat of SCOP, which meant the fighter could do a hit and run, as could the rest of his army. I mean, if he'd been using any other CO I would have been fine, but Eagle's "I win the game" button removed any chance of that.

Invi's win is well-deserved - despite falling behind early on, he managed to make a total comeback and win the game. Kudos to him, and if his CO was better than mine, it's my fault for not anticipating it.

So overall, a painful lesson that taught me three major things: 1) Eagle's SCOP is game-winning, 2) How to properly counter a stealth, 3) Not to make blunders like exposing half my army to his first SCOP.

I had a lot of fun playing though, and I wouldn't mind a rematch sometime. Cheers!

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Re: Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

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