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Max Surprise 2

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Max Surprise 2

Post  Blanci on Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:23 am

T_T surprised me again choosing Max on a map which seems chokey
http://awbw.amarriner.com/game.php?games_id=224462

However in our game Max worked well, making it horribly awkward to safely deploy arty.
Though i think TT recently got distracted, as he seemed set to breakthrough on day 12 and get my arty and cause havoc, but somehow changed tack and played safe. It may have been risky but isnt that what Max has to do ?

Personally I have very little Max experience , and i think this is a good strategy question. Everyone feel free to chip in with any snippets of knowledge, theory or your experience of this highly unusual CO.

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Re: Max Surprise 2

Post  Everdan on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:14 pm

Max is definitely quite strong in direct brawling, which is why it's a good idea to avoid direct confrontation. Instead, maintain tight defense and attack only when you have superior strength.

Despite his intimidating ability, I find he's beaten by simply piling up your forces. Rockets, mechs, arties and Md tanks are all good defensive units that Max finds difficult to break through when deployed in good formation. On a day to day basis at least, he can be walled by a simple line formation since his tanks can't OHKO infs on 1-star or higher terrain, even with a tower. Without a tower, he can't KO them even on roads.

The story's different when he's got a CO power charged. With his day to day +20, +20 from his COP and +10 from a tower, his 150/110 tanks or copters can easily one-shot your infs, which makes defense more difficult. However, even with these bonuses he can't KO an enemy tank under any circumstances, allowing you to wall with tanks instead. Assuming you already had defensive troops (like the four I mentioned above) in place, he can't break through your formation because you're ready to counterattack the instant he tries.

It's pretty much the same story with his SCOP. Even with 170/110 tanks, he falls short of the OHKO on opposing tanks on 1-star or higher terrain, i.e. he won't be able to more than scratch your formation. And then you can counterattack.

All in all Max is a pretty formidable opponent and defending against him requires exact play so that you don't take losses in the early game. However, on most maps, it is entirely possible to block him off entirely with indirects behind an infantry screen - if necessary, MD tanks can be used to patch up weak parts. If he counters it with heavy tanks of his own, your indirects are already set to counter that. Max lacks any real ability to break through defensive positions, while being unable to hold such positions himself. It seems he is at best a one trick pony, good for rushing and not much else. I would not recommend him in high-level games for these very reasons, since his weaknesses limit your strategic potential.

Then again, I've not much experience using him because I don't think he's good. So if anybody disagrees, I welcome feedback based on real experience Smile

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Re: Max Surprise 2

Post  InvincibleXI on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:57 am

OHKOs are obviously ideal for breaking through, but very very few COs can do it with tanks. Being close to an OHKO is often a big edge anyway since it allows a 2HKO even with the second attacking unit being badly weakened. I suspect any CO which can actually pull off OHKOs regularly would be unstoppable. At 120% offence, Max is extremely dangerous in breaking through when the enemy has yet to support the defensive position properly with indirects since the damage he can do is likely heavier than counterattacks. As you mention, this gives him an early game advantage in fighting for contested properties far from the bases especially in big open maps.

One interesting mechanic I think about Max is that he is IMO the most reliant CO on air units being available, even more so than Eagle and Sensei. Without air units, as you said heavy tanks supported by indirects will stop any attacks on fronts at a ridiculously cost effective rate, since Max cannot use mechs, indirects or heavy tanks well in this case. This will mean unless the map is super big and open such that this deployment is impossible, Max will lose in the long run even with a sizable fund edge. BCptrs give Max a chance to beat the tanks, assuming you have sufficient strength to beat his AA counter obviously. Again on a closed map this won't work, but on an open map where a position can be attacked from two sides for instance it becomes very dangerous.

Max's indirect weakness is obvious, like you said he can't hold defensive positions which are super important in AWBW. A gradual infantry/mech and artillery swarm seems lethal especially without air units. However, when things go his way, on a big open map with air units and limited use for indirects, I would say Max is better than a generic CO, like Adder, Koal, Jake etc. But when faced with COs that have real strengths, particularly in powers like Eagle, Sami and Andy, ultimately I think he will still struggle. I've played one game with Max, where I got a big fund lead in an open map with heavy air, only to be destroyed by Eagle's SCOP which Max's COPs couldn't contest with. So even then Max is still limited.


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